Do You Believe In God?

10 comments:

Liberal Elite said...

Here's ome for you ATGR

"Why do Americans still dislike atheists?"
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/why-do-americans-still-dislike-atheists/2011/02/18/AFqgnwGF_story.html

afterthegoldrush said...

Not hate. Tolerance.

Two Sentz said...

The best part of that whole clip is that God looks out for the righteous and punishes the wicked. Even though she didn't believe, God loves her so much he saved her from disaster and let her ride in the second one. But eventually, she will have to realize that for herself. Pride is a very addictive drug.

Two Sentz said...

@ LE "Why do Americans still dislike atheists?"

I read your article, here's my take.

"Those who don’t believe in God are widely considered to be immoral, wicked and angry."

If you think anyone here has said that about you, I disagree.

"They can’t join the Boy Scouts."

Complain to the boy scouts.

"Surveys find that most Americans refuse or are reluctant to marry or vote for nontheists;"

It's a free country. You can't force people to do such things.

"in other words, nonbelievers are one minority still commonly denied in practical terms the right to assume office"

Total BS.

"this stunning anti-atheist discrimination"

Sensationalist exaggeration.

"Christian conservatives who stridently — and uncivilly — declare that the lack of godly faith is detrimental to society,"

True. But where people always get tripped up it that they forget that everyone is human and it is hard to be good, even when you want to. If I say I am a musician, that doesn't mean I won't play a wrong note now and then, or the Cy Young winner won't throw a ball from time to time.

"the irreligious tend to be more ethical than their religious peers, particularly compared with those who describe themselves as very religious. "

Good thing this article is on the "opinion" page.

Let me sum up the murder rate thing and another common complaint you always hear that Christians/Religious people do more heinous acts than non religious (or something like that, you get the idea, I've even hear LE say that). The Bible explains this too.


Luke 11:24-26
2 Peter 2:20-22

Basically it says this: If a person has not been made clean by the Lord, they are inhabited by one evil spirit. When a person has been made clean but returns to their wicked ways, seven, more powerful wicked spirits return to dwell within that person making them worse off than they were before ever knowing the Lord. It's a risky business this religious stuff, you have to really be one top off your game.

"As individuals, atheists tend to score high on measures of intelligence, especially verbal ability and scientific literacy. They tend to raise their children to solve problems rationally, to make up their own minds when it comes to existential questions and to obey the golden rule. They are more likely to practice safe sex than the strongly religious are, and are less likely to be nationalistic or ethnocentric. They value freedom of thought. "

Can any of that really be attributed to being an atheist?

"Denmark, which is among the least religious countries in the history of the world, consistently rates as the happiest of nations."

Ignorance is bliss? If you don't think you have done anything wrong, you would have no reason to feel badly about it.

"And studies of apostates — people who were religious but later rejected their religion — report feeling happier, better and liberated in their post-religious lives."

Like I said, it's hard work being religious. It's like saying the perons who quit their 80 hour a week job reports being happier, less stressed and more rested than before. Duh. Except this job is 24/7/365.

"whoever wrote Psalm 14"

Now that is just a flat out insult by the writer against faith. It is well known and documented who wrote the Psalms, and yes he was a real person that did exist. It was at this point I lost respect.

So that's my take. But I always refer back to one of my favorite passages and the popular WWJD (what would Jesus do?), John 12:47 "If anyone hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge that person. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world." If you reject Him, that's your call. It's not for me to judge your decision. I (we all) have to follow the Golden Rule and love you just the same.

Reconciled1 said...

Well said 2, well said...

Two Sentz said...

Thanks R1. We should get together sometime for a hang/lunch/etc.

Two Sentz said...

So should you and I LE.

Liberal Elite said...

@TS "The best part of that whole clip is that God looks out for the righteous and punishes the wicked."

That's why it's called fiction.

(I'll send in a longer response later.)

Liberal Elite said...

@TS [I read your article, here's my take.]

It's not "my" article. Just because I posted it, doesn't mean that I agree with every word of it.

...but here goes.

[ "Those who don’t believe in God are widely considered to be immoral, wicked and angry."
If you think anyone here has said that about you, I disagree. ]

No, but there's a rather ugly history, both here in the US and elsewhere... Don't be ignorant of that history.

And based on a campaign of lies, many people do not understand the true disconnect between religious belief and morality. From my perspective, ethical beliefs and acts are more likely to be found in the non-religious. It seems to me that the religious put too much emphasis on ethical lists (e.g. ten commandments) and forgiveness, at the expense of establishing a true moral foundation... something with some real substance.

["They can’t join the Boy Scouts."
Complain to the boy scouts.]

I was a Boy Scout (and Order of the Arrow). Religion tests weren't such an issue then. I never had any religion, and didn't have a clue what "reverent" meant when I signed up. Science had already killed God in my family long before I arrived.

["in other words, nonbelievers are one minority still commonly denied in practical terms the right to assume office"

Total BS. ]

Really? Really?? How many self proclaimed atheists are in Congress? We're about 20% of the population... If we were adequately represented, there would be about 100 members in both houses.
Instead we only have closet atheists in Congress, and maybe elsewhere. What I find really funny is people who think Obama is a Muslim. There's a far more likely possibility.

["this stunning anti-atheist discrimination"
Sensationalist exaggeration.]

It seems stunning to me. You have Muslims and gays, Mormons, and all sorts of crazies in Congress, yet no atheists? Why? Simple answer: stunning discrimination.

But on the science side, there is also reverse discrimination. Religious people in science are seen as rather non-serious. Most hide whatever religious sentiments they have. It sure won't help you to get tenure... It won't help you get research grants... Religion is almost never discussed in the ivory tower.

Even with Einstein, his largest failures are seen as wishing religion was true and letting that wish cloud his judgement with respect to some key experiments and theories. As long as his work didn't conflict with his religion he was exceptional. When it did...

Is it fair? If I got a grant to read that simply assumed that evolution was incorrect, I would be totally nonplused. It would be a science grant that refutes a core principle of biological science. My rejection would be fair.

Liberal Elite said...

continued...

["the irreligious tend to be more ethical than their religious peers, particularly compared with those who describe themselves as very religious."
Good thing this article is on the "opinion" page.]

Sorry. I do see that in my life. My father was a strict moralist. Moral lapses were something other people had. Do you know any strict moralists? Someone who doesn't believe that evil things can ever be truly forgiven? They probably aren't Christian.

["As individuals, atheists tend to score high on measures of intelligence, especially verbal ability and scientific literacy. They tend to raise their children to solve problems rationally, ... "

Can any of that really be attributed to being an atheist?]

Yes. The more you learn, the higher your BS threshold becomes, and the less likely you are to be religious. There is an indirect correlation. Remember that religious quiz... Atheists had the highest average score of any group tested. Learning about religion is what creates atheists. Learning is also correlated with intelligence and literacy.

[Like I said, it's hard work being religious.]

I disagree. I think that humans have evolved to be religious. There's good evidence that we are hard wired for religious feelings. Thus, it's much harder to be non-religions. That requires the higher brain smacking down the lower brain again and again.

[If you reject Him, that's your call. It's not for me to judge your decision.]

And likewise I judge a man by what he does, and not by what he thinks. I have no problem with religious beliefs per se. It's when those beliefs spill over into bad actions, ... that's my real beef with religion.